lol, I'm not a shipper either. And I agree with you that Damon needs supports and not approvals, he needs his loved ones to believe he can be good without always fulfilling ppl's expectations. Everybody makes mistakes, from our mistakes we grow and become better. To a person like Damon, judgmental attitude will not help. I like to explore Damon, becoz he's complicated, and that makes him interesting.
As Kat, even if she has no strong bond or no bond at all with Damon, I still think that she really knows Damon. She would never be able to manipulate Damon if she doesn't know him very well. She knows which button to push to make him react as she wants. She failed sometime because she lost track of Damon character development as Damon change thru the years. But She's smart and she has learnt new facts about him. Katherine is a complicated character too. She's kinda lost her true self as her journey has clouded her true self. I think she even confuses herself about who she really is. When I said she will help Damon, it's not because he is in her "unfinished business" list, but becoz the journey of her redemption will lead her there. So yeah IMO, her last scene with Stefan, they both gonna save him. Stefan will be the bond that make's him realize that he always have someone who love and care about him, the bonding of family. But Kat will be the one who push Damon's button at the right place to make him realize this.
Hey, I want to know your thought about what Elena might do after she come back? Have any prediction on how she will deal with the situations?
LOL. Yeah, then after season 6, CW will make a new show Budhist Vampire diaries. :D
pervent from killing the time when you are in hospital full of people is smart yes
why can't u understand Caroline is different from others don't you really see that? her transition was different from others do not compare them(U can't understand this can u?)
and i never talked about stupid things the people did(i know them better than u ), again Damon will be on the top of this list
and you are not in the position to tell this:
(LOL. It's good that the writer choose to save him so we can still have TVD show.)
Cause this is not Damon's story its Stefan's .(if you want , u can check out season 1, episode 1 you'll understand
and yes it is heartless but u can't see this because Damon was out and Enzo wasn't so important to you (but for once think and then answer , if the situation was reverse and Damon was in the cage what would u think ? huh)
i don't care u judge them or not But u CAN'T Stop others from judging Damon.
i create this page to hear others point of view , no one wants to fight here
if you can't be polite get out & Keep your mouth closed or I'll tell an admin
PS: The key wasn't imagination , the person who brought Damon out of Cage had Keys
they call this possibelty (imagination is that you compare this with Stefan's transition)
-
"i don't care u judge them or not But u CAN'T Stop others from judging Damon.
i create this page to hear others point of view , no one wants to fight here"
-- I'm sorry, but that's exactly what I'm doing, giving you my POV with all the reasoning. No fight intended. When you replied on my thought then I think we're going into a discussion. Too bad if you consider it as a fight, have I ever been impolite to you and giving u "a mad man" impressions? It was you who get offended by diffrent opinion. My suggestion, don't start any discussions when you don't really want to discuss by commenting on ppl's POV whether you agree or not with their POV. You're even don't have arguments tp support or disagree with ppl POV, you just simply want to fight.
Well, he's intuitive, impulsive, passionate, and has free spirit. He's flirty, sarcastic, stubborn, has a good sense of humor and love to deliver it in a weird way and sometime in the wrong time. He love to make joke on everything. He make an impressions that nothing's matter. Those characterics can be seen thru his actions, becoz it's noticeable and he acts like this almost everytime in front of the people.
He claim himself as selfish, bad brother, and people believe him. He wants them to believe him, coz it's easier that way, coz he doesn't want to live in anyone expectation. He never want to defend himself. He's self destructive.
Why I said Elena, Alaric and Katherine understand better it's because they can see the reasons behind his actions. They want know or observe what's goin on inside his heart. And as the time goes by they started to know him better not just his mask. Other ppl don't even bother to ask him why, they just simply belief that he's bad. If they know the reasons behind it, they may realize that sometime, many time, Damon did the right thing, and if they're put in Damon's shoes, sometime they did the same evil thing.
In a short word, Devil may cry, LOL, he cries coz he actually has a soft heart, and insecure. But other than Elena, Alaric and Kat, all that other ppl see is the devil inside him, an impulsive phychotic mind with no redeeming quality who snap and kill people. LOL.
I don't really understand your question. Specially the last question. Maybe you could give me more explanation or example on him escaping his problem.
The doppelganger story, the universe path. Maybe it could help:
Silas to Amara: Just as you are mine, I am yours forever, because when I look at you... Amara... all I see is an angel.
Stefan to Katherine: Uh, very much so. I know… we’ve only known each other for a short while and I know I’m in competition for your affections but I’ve never met a woman quite like you. I look at you and I see an angel. I touch your skin and my entire body ignites. I kiss you and I know that I’m falling in love. (from memory lane)
Coincidence or intentional? Stefan never said this to Elena.
So I think 'REAL" LOVE would be the theme of the journey. so the pair that has a real love with strong foundation to keep going the journey of life that full of ups and downs, would be the end game.
I was discussing with others and we were surprised at how much and how quickly he discarded the bond he had built with Jeremy - how do you think about it?
The Enzo relationship has come about because he has a void after Katelena has broken him and he is no longer assertive as he was with Enzo when he said they were even. Then Enzo plays on his vulnerability with giving him a way to let it out at the same time pulling on guilt about leaving Enzo behind and thinking he was dead and not re-captured and still being tortured.
Do you think Stefan will be the one to save him? From himself and the serum now taking control?
Another big post would be great lol yay! ;)
Yes, it's kind of surprising me as well that Damon discarded what he has built with Jeremy. Damon is a character that when he care about something or someone he does it with all of him. He cares and loves deeply. So it's gonna hurt him if the person he care much doesn't really care about him. He loves to push ppl who wants to care about him away just too see if they're really care. When they're not backing away then he got the proof he needs to start caring about this person. No one in this show have genuine feeling that they like/love/care/understand about Damon as Damon, except Elena and Alaric and I dare to say Katherine in her twisted way. Stefan loves Damon too, but he just doesn't really know his brother well, so he doesn't know how to love/care Damon and how to fight Damon's dark side to pull him out from it. He admited it in his conversation with Caroline in last episode. When Damon met Enzo, he felt guilty, but then he saved him and called it even. He has no debt no more.
When Elena says it's over, he felt that he lost her. He has no one now that really care about him as he is. But he has Enzo. Someone who has a strong bond with him once, someone who trust him and willing to suffered for him. In 5x12 Damon reveal in his conversation with Aaron:
Aaron: What do you want, Damon?
Damon: I want the same thing you want, Aaron. Go back in time, fix the past, get someone back I've lost.
So, IMO, his journey now with Enzo, have something to do with his effort to have the old Enzo back. In Damon POV, his bond with Jeremy is not as strong as his old bond with Enzo. I know it's controversial, but I'm a weird person, LOL. The incident with Jeremy would've not happened, if Jeremy really care about Damon. he could say Damon didn't need to threat anyone coz he would help him finding a way tracking Wes, ask Bonnie to help Damon as well. etc etc, many better scenarios in my head. He threatened Jeremy becoz he knew they will never help him willingly. It kinda reminds me of his journey to save Kat in season 1. It was Elena that wanted to help him no matter how she didn't really like/agree with Damon that time. Maybe he expected Elena would react the same as before. That's why he came to the party and let everyone knew about it including Elena. That's why he's not threathen Bonnie not to tell anyone. He could've if he really wanted to hurt Jeremy. But Elena reation is not like his expectation. She even bother to make a phone call. who she's calling? 911? LOL. Anyway Damon always has priority list in his life. and at this time, Enzo is in his top priority. Don't get me wrong, Elena always has place in his heart, but she's a vampire now who can take care of her self, she's save not in danger, and she has all her friends surround her to help.
Now about who's gonna save Damon from himself? I believe only someone who really know Damon as Damon can save him. IMO He will be the one who save himself but with a help from someone who knows him well. Elena could definitely save him, but Elena's gone. No Elena. So I scratch that possibility unless the writer decides to make Damon's redemption arc longer till the end of the season. It could be Stefan but only if he got a new revelation about who his brother really is, only if he come to a new realization about his brother, new understanding. The other person who I think have this capability to do this is Katherine. Katherine does know Damon well. She know Damon as human and she knows Damon as vampire. Actually I believe she loves/care about Damon too different with her love for Stefan. But I do believe she does love him. There are several evidence from the show to support this idea. It's kinda love and hate situation. You can disagree with me. believe me I know it's weird. :D
But I think it would be Katherine not Stefan. I come to this idea because I think this season is also about Kat's redemption. In early episodes TVD gave us a tool for us to have soft spot for her and feel sorry for her. So I think TVD will continue develop her redemption path before she's really gone. When she was gone for a sec she said "No. Uh hu. It's too soon. I can't!" . and after she came back to her body she said she still have unfinished business. So yeah she will finish her business before she pass on for good. Damon is not in her unfinished business list, but somehow he would be in her redemption arc act. She knows two brother well, she was the one who helped Stefan in his PTSD issue, and she will help Damon too. I guess she won't forget that Damon died to save her and that he onced loved her more than anything in this world. Other reason why I think/hope Kat would do this is becoz I love her character. LOL. I think there will be no point to show us her suffering in her human period and how tragic it was if TVD doesn't have plan for it. So yeah, I believe she will redeem herself to both Salvatore brothers before she pass on, be dead dead, gone for good.
in fact all you said was some part of the show mixed with your imagination your thoughts are like a 3 year old child , think before you talk about something I said When damon was WITH Elena you Stupid , all that action you named was the time Elena was with Stefan not Damon (When Damon was with Elena he went on a trip to kill Aaron's aunt (now is obvious that you don't know what u are thalking about) And Caroline and Stefan had two diffirent transition and Caroline in hospital was surronded by people she's smart so she didn't kill the nurse ,after that Stefan Helped her to manage no to feed on matt , so keep you mouth shut if u don't know a thing about them LoL , you are funny Cause you don't even know what the question here is. Go and wash your eyes then rewatch the show, if you didn't ,do not reply cause it makes others laugh at u that u think u know everything but in fact u don't konw a thing
So, being smart can prevent Caroline from killing the nurse @hospital but being compassionate, care deeply on someone as Stefan claim himself to be cannot prevent him from killing his father?
About the Damon action of killing people, he's not doing it in secret, becoz when he wants to kill someone he won't asked for anyone approval even Elena. It's his character. Do you even see if Elena got mad at him becoz he killed Aaron's aunt behind her back? No, she acted calmly and didn't even brought that up when she met Damon @ the fireplace. she maybe surprised that she didn't know about that at first, but she really aware who Damon is, she knows him and what he's capable of.
I've given my opinion on Damon actions before and later replies it's me commenting on ppl's comment. About imagination, well, it's some people here who have imagination that he could do better, so that is why they judged his action as cruel, when the scene only showing us that there's a cage with Enzo in it, enforced with vervain, surrounding by fire. no tools, no keys, nothing. Only Damon, enzo, cage and fire. The fire got out of control, so the only option is save himself, or keep trying, die and be a hero of the show and gone. LOL. It's good that the writer choose to save him so we can still have TVD show. His action was heartless, selfish, the question remain is, that is he really heartless? becoz if he is, he will not need to turn off his humanity. I don't want to judge characters in TVD coz if do, i'd say all characters are stupid and cruel, coz in my imagination they could do something smarter to avoid people's death. So, do you get my point here? If you want I can give u the list of where and when each characters acting stupid, selfish and cruel, plus my opinion on how they should act on the situation. Just tell me,OK? :D
PS: you should tell the one who has a great imagination who brought up an example about finding the cage key idea "it's only your imagination".. ;)
(i hate this kind of folks that when they can't prove their opinion they start to say that the person they love is better than others)
are joking right? I've given you some examples, and you're not even give me reason that prove me wrong, and yet you just keep repeating the same words with no valid argument. but today I'm free, so i have a lot of time to explain it to you. LOL
-Thats not an excuse Stefan had no one at that time to teach him control himself but caroline had Stefan ----------------- Did you read what I wrote before? Watch the show again and you'll see Caroline was ALL ALONE in the hospital, she fed and she managed NOT TO KILL anyone when she fed for the first time. That's not the case with Stefan, he was all alone he killed his father. His FATHER. Does it make Stefan worst than others? NO, coz EVERY VAMPIRE KILL PEOPLE. no exeption. But to claim he's superior than others, now that's a problem.
- Damon in the other hand cant stop the killing whether with or without Elena(with Elena he killes in secret , without her he killes in public) -------------------- Damon ADMIT he like to kill coz he's a vampire. coz it's in his nature. your claim that he kill people in secret when Elena's around is kidding right? He killed Jeremy in front of her (thanks to the ring), he snapped Alaric's neck infront of her, he wanted to kill Caroline's father infront of Caroline and Elena. if he want to kill someone he just do it, it doesnt matter if people know or not. Hiding bad behaviors is never in Damon's character, it's Stefan's. Why need to hide when you claim yourself as "bad brother/killer"? It's Stefan who has a need to hide this fact about him becoz he claim himself as "good brother". BTW do you really watch the show?
If you want to reply to have some discussion, pls reply with some good arguments, not just the same old words that shows nothing but your preference. If you couldn't do that, don't bother replying. Enjoy the show :)
Oh come on..I just want you to be fair here. In Stefan first feeding he's on his own, no one teach him, he ended up feeding and killed his father. Stefan did help Caroline but AFTER her first feeding. She managed to not kill anyone. She fed from the blood bag to complete the transistion, remember? Then she fed from the nurse, and not ended up killing her. She did her first time feeding straight from the vein on HER OWN. NO ONE teach her. Yes later at the carnival she ended up killing someone. there's when Stefan help her. Compare Stefan's and Caroline's first time. You know I'm right.
Well in their non-newbie period both brother has done many terrible things. Killing human with/without reason is wrong in human POV although in vampire POV it's not, they hungry they need to feed to survive, and at 18C or early 19C there's no such thing as blood bag.
About Elena's love, umm..are you sure? One thing we know that love come and go. But if the love is strong enough it will encourage them to talk about the future together. So yeah well, just let see. It depend on the writer.
Like I said I have NO favorite characters. I just love the show and all characters in it. they're all interesting, but I just have different impression from what I see on my screen to some fans who love the characters blindly and give a false impressions to defend their preference.
What is your definition of hero? saving people lives? if that's the definition then Damon, Bonnie and many other characters are also heroes. :) we can say Damon is a bad ass hero, Bonnie is a witch heroine. etc.
Stefan is not as good as he claim to be and other ppl think he is, and Damon is not as bad as he claim to be and other ppl think he is. I won't argue about preference here. We just can't argue about preference right?
Doesn't Damon always have this "i don't care" expressions? Always joking around and give impressions that nothing's matter? He's well known for that. He never let anyone knows his true feeling and always try to hide it. Only few people recognize this about Damon. I'm new to this show, but I do like it so that I watched all the episodes. He went from wanting destroy MF to want to save it. He went from not caring about someone to really care about someone, even fall in love with Elena. But he came to this point not without reason. His reason is becoz he found someone who believe that he worth saving and can be saved. This is the reason that made him want to start to bring up his humanity. Elena's love is just a bonus. when Elena's repeating the same words as Kat's when rejected him at season 2 he snapped. But that's not the case in season 3. He handle it well, means that he has new understanding. There's no indication in season 4 that he tried to seduce Elena like he used to be in the previous seasons.
Season 5 circumstances really hard for Damon. He met the ghost from his horrible past, Enzo. A friend he let to die so he could save him self. Clearly he felt guilty, and I think he wants to redeem himself to Enzo. I think he knew if he wanted to redeem himself to Enzo he would've eventually follow their old revenge plan. He was conflicted. In his mind, there are two possibilities, Elena will defend him which means he changed her to be as bad as him, or Elena will against him but since he will do it anyway it will means that he will hurt her and their relationship. And I think this is why he chose to let Elena go (break up) and I think this is where his words "I refuse to change you" came from.
His speech to Elena, in 5x13, basically saying that he was wrong for having a thought that Elena will get influenced by his dark side and make her change to a bad person like him. He was underestimating Elena's good quality as a person. And he needs her to be his good influence. Kat actually didn't understand what he's talking about. Her respond confused Damon becoz she talk about her worries of him lashing out when he didn't get what he wants. Kat's respond is a common respond from people who doesn't know him well. Common respond from people who always think that Damon cannot be saved. This what break his heart, Elena lose her faith that he can be saved. Her line: It's about you... about the person I can't change.. the person you really are. That person was right to let me go. basically comfirmed his fear that he is a bad influence for Elena, and that she admit that he would change her become worst. He's a bad influence becoz he just bad. Damon translate this as now Elena really thinks that he is a monster without redeeming quality just like everybody does. becoz Elena he knows is someone who never lose hope, so when Elena lose hope in him, he believe he's hopeless. So then with this belief, Damon redeem himself to Enzo by proceeding the revenge plan Enzo offered in a monstrous way, in Enzo's way. At least he could redeem himself to someone who once meaningful to him. Honestly, I believe his revenge plan has nothing to do with his pain. He will do that for Enzo no matter what. maybe, if Elena's there, he will do it not in such extreme way. But since there's only Enzo, so yeah Enzo's way rules. LOL
So to the question if Damon can forgive himself, I'd say he would when he can see that there's someone still have faith in him genuinely. But I don't know if he could if somewhere along the show the writer decide to add more obstacle to his redemption by making him hurting Elena (maybe feeding from her) to the point of her death (or almost death)
Silas to Amara: Just as you are mine, I am yours forever, because when I look at you... Amara... all I see is an angel.
Stefan to Katherine: Uh, very much so. I know… we’ve only known each other for a short while and I know I’m in competition for your affections but I’ve never met a woman quite like you. I look at you and I see an angel. I touch your skin and my entire body ignites. I kiss you and I know that I’m falling in love. (from memory lane)
Coincidence or intentional?
What I love about Elena's characters in TVD is her understanding. She has ability to see from other people POV. She knows how it feels when vampire hate someone, she knows how it feels when you wanna kill someone for revenge. She has her own experience on that. She knows when the humanity switch off vampire very capable to do the most horrible thing coz she once did it. In season 3, Stefan's coffins case, it almost similar. In his revenge process, Elena and Jeremy were both put in danger, live threatening moments. And yet, Elena could still find away to forgive Stefan.
So I think Elena could manage her way forgiving Damon. but how she's going to decide about her reltionship with Damon is up to her. But I believe her experiences this time will change her perspectives about everything forever.
what I'm expect is that you could always find an excuse to justify the horrible thing Stefan did. just typical fandom. and see I'm right.
'Stefan didn't want to do it he was in transition ( what do u expect from a newbie vampire? huh?)" ---- it's just an excuse. I can expect him not to kill his father, (Caroline was in transition and she managed not to kill Matt, don't forget she has the same urge like Stefan did). Tell me what is different between your statement above and mine "Damon didn't want to leave his friend. He wanted to safe him. But the fire was just to damn big to convince him that they could make it. Just like Damon had to turn off to be able to survive and let his friend die, Stefan had to turn off to be able to survive and fed from his father. Were both CRUEL action? The answer is YES.
FYI, I never consider both brothers as heroes. They all may consider as heroes at sometime for certain people and at other time as an ass. But well, some say, love is blind and that's maybe why Elena has feelings and fall for Damon. But at least Elena's not ashame to recognize and admit that the person she love has flaws, too bad that's not the case with you.