^Ok, first of all......what the hell are you talking about? The only coven that was victimized were the French Quarter witches, who were all in on the Harvest (the other covens were unaffected by all that S1 bullshit, from what I remember). The only one that argued (loudly) against it, was Sophie. And the witches response to the human and vampire factions fairly rational concerns (after Sophie brought them up to speed on the child sacrifice bit), was "Fuck you. We do what we want. And we want to be more powerful than you.", followed by cursing an innocent member of the clergy to go nuts and murder a whole bunch of people, just to punish/distract Father Kieran. These are NOT good people. They then proceeded to lie to four teenage girls, and then hold them down and slit their throats while they screamed for help. Their own parents, their friends and their family did this. Then Marcel intervened, and managed to save Davina.
After this, she (for obvious reasons) didn't trust the witches, and didn't want them to have their powers anymore. She wanted their power to fade away, if they were willing to murder her and her friends to restore it. So she helped Marcel keep a lid on things, and suppress any attempts by the crazy child-sacrificing witches to use magic, until the Harvest power faded from her. She genuinely thought they lied to the Harvest Girls, that they wouldn't come back, and so she wasn't being selfsih, she was just defending herself, and avenging her friends.
Secondly, the Ancestors had no call judging anyone, given that they're pathetic, small, dead things who refuse to lie down and die. They're as unnatural as vampires, clinging to life past their time, yet think they're somehow better. And they'd have been more justified in being pissed at the Elders, for failing to inform the Harvest Girls what the ritual was really about. Davina might have gone along with it, if she had been told the truth from the start. Though, you're right, she WAS warned, and she acknowledged that before she died.
You need to rewatch. Tim died because Davina lost faith in Marcel (who neglected to inform her that the last witch who could perform the Reaping was dead, and thus she was safe) and she wanted to leave NOLA, to get away from the violence and manipulations. And because Klaus didn't want to lose his tool, so he told her come back and grovel at his feet like a good little slave, or Tim would die. She came back pissed off, and fought back. She won. Klaus had compelled Tim to poison both himself and Davina if she did, however. It wasn't even about eliminating a threat for Klaus, it was just a "fuck you" for not bowing down to him. That was NOT her fault.
And again, by the end of the season, she WAS staying out of Klaus's way. Right up until he kidnapped/bit Josh to try and force her to locate Marcel for him. And she only brought back Mikael because Klaus never returned to heal Josh, and he was dying. She came to the conclusion that as long as he was alive, all of her friends were at risk, so she brought back someone with a chance to kill him, because she couldn't. That's fair, don't you think?
Lol. It was hilarious. For one, Sybil literally took control of Damon and made him into the thing he is right now, so she's just reaping what she sowed (and has no cause to complain). Two, Damon's always been an awful person (so why is it shocking/disappointing that he'd unnecessarily be a dick? Especially when his humanity's off?). Three (and this is the one that really got me), Sybil was billed as "Evil Herself", so if she can't take Damon being mean to hear without bursting into tears, then that is proof positive that she's a pathetic villain.
Indeed. How much of this thread have you read? Because....its kind of frightening.
Damon is....well, as Kev said above, he's a bitch. And a dick. ;)
He's damaged, he's twisted, he's broken, and he's aware of it, and sometimes seems to hate that about himself, and we'll have some poignant little moment (usually where there's no important person around to see or hear but Damon) where we get some insight into him (or think we're getting an insight into him). We'll find out that he really DOES miss being human, or that he really DOES care about others more than himself.............but then this is flat-out contradicted by his actions later. And that is the problem with Damon in a nutshell. The writers had no idea where they were going with him.
In the first couple of seasons there was some kind of progression, there was character development. He was a villain, a monster, a genuine bad guy, but we also saw that there was seemingly something redeeming about him..............but as time went on, they just settled into this boring little cat-and-mouse game with redemption, where they would show him making something resembling progress, and then they'd cut it off at the knees, and make him nothing but awful again. And there's only so many times you can do that, before it becomes apparent that the character is pathological, he won't change, he can't change. That he's just a monster with a victim complex that enjoys blaming others for his own actions.
Damon is snarky and entertaining. He's also whiny and irresponsible and petty (he's almost consistently like Enzo was in S6. He does bad things,, then wonders why nobody likes him and his life sucks.). I tend to like villain protagonists (because unapologetic bad guys are great), but Damon....he long ago used up my patience with him. When he admitted to his real reasons for killing Lexi and Zach, I almost leaped into the screen to throttle him.
OHhhhh.....well, personally, I think just about every ship on this show is toxic and dysfunctional as all hell (barring a very short list of examples), so I tend to disregard the "awful people are awful" thing in the context of talking about ships, or else I just get all sad and start wondering what happened to Julie Plec to make her think this is romantic..........
But yeah, Klaus is an abusive a-hole (and Damon is a whiny jackass who doesn't want to take responsibility for his own actions. Remember back in S5, where he tried to palm it all off on Katherine, even though he pretty much BEGGED her to turn him, and she gave him multiple outs?). Seriously. Dude needed therapy LONG before he hit TO S1. Probably would have spared a lot of people a lot of suffering......
How so? How is it any worse than any of the show's other ships? Because they're guy's? I don't actually ship it romantically (though I like their bromance scenes; they're entertaining as all hell.), but I wouldn't hate it if they went that way.
I saw her as an insecure little girl in S1. She always felt like she was second best, second choice, and she over-compensated to make up for it. I felt sorry for her, honestly. Particularly after Damon got a hold of her and treated her like trash, just because he could.
In S2, I thought she did a lot of growing up. I liked her interactions with Stefan, how she went out of her way to be there for Tyler, to stand up and be a person. You could see her working past her insecurities.
After that? Well, after that, she's had no big stories that aren't romance-related, or the babies (which I hate for a number of reasons, like how it totally breaks canon, makes no sense even if it didn't, and is more than a little rapey considering the Gemini Coven just jammed them in there without her knowledge or consent). Her character was relatively pointless for S3-4, and in S5 onwards she actively annoyed me with her actions. Like when she slept with Klaus, Tyler got angry, and the show painted it as HIM being unreasonable (after she slept with the guy who MURDERED HIS MOTHER, ALONG WITH A DOZEN OF HIS FRIENDS). Or when she became totally obsessed with Stefan in S6. It was all bizarre, and detrimental to her character.
^Not quite. It'd be like what Silas did to Katherine, draining her to the point of death. Honestly, its a miracle that ANYONE would survive that amount of blood loss. The fact that Silas survived having a hunk of glass jammed into his carotid artery and Amara almost draining HIM is nothing short of astounding. If I was Damon, I wouldn't be willing to take that chance with someone I loved.
Well, in the books, Elena is pretty much Caroline. The blond, peppy cheerleader. I'd assume they considered it, but then went with Nina's take.
I actually happen to like Marcel, but in the narrative, the only logical conclusion here is Marcel's death. The Mikaelson's I could actually see as wanting to make peace (considering they blame themselves for the circumstances leading up to Marcel turning on them, and that nobody actually died as a result of it), but Marcel? At this point, him allowing them to live, would just make a mockery of his reasons for turning against them in the first place, and would make him the most appalling hypocrite. He took a stand, and now he needs to hold his ground. Otherwise, it can only hurt him as a character.
Katherine? Oh, she got sucked away into a plot hole made manifest. ;)
But seriously, the writers just wanted to have something dramatic happen, and because Katherine dared to harm poor, precious Elena, they decided that meant she was "evil" enough that instead of going to the Other Side (like...I don't know......EVERY OTHER EVIL VAMP WE'VE SEEN ON THE SHOW? Including Mikael and Kol?) , they sucked her away into oblivion. What ACTUALLY happened? The writers themselves probably don't know. She's just gone. And it sucks. And I'm still mad about it.
@My Name is Zac
Couldn't agree more. Literally in S3, Elena called out Esther for wanting to wipe out the sirelines, saying that it was wrong to wipe out the good with the bad. Yet less than a full season later, Elena wanted to do the same thing, for her own selfish reasons (as opposed to Esther's desire to right the wrong she committed, and save humanity from a race of murderous monsters). In hindsight, all Elena's protests back then meant was that she didn't want to lose HER friends. Everyone else could get bent.
Not to mention, Kol's "evil" plan, was just to get them to stop looking for a Cure that every vampire in the history of ever had learned to live without, because he didn't want to risk raising a world-destroying, unstoppable immortal. And they opted instead to murder him. Fucks sake..........
And Julie Plec/Caroline Dries still have the gall to call the Mystic Falls Gang "heroes"...............
Elena.......I haven't liked Elena since S3 of TVD, so I'm really not fussed if she never comes back. Honestly, if she died permanently and Damon stopped using her as an excuse for his bad behaviour (or lack of good behaviour) and grew up, then I'd be perfectly happy. Seriously, Delena aggravates me, and has since it became an actual thing in S4. Its even been stated ON-SCREEN that its a toxic relationship, which doesn't work, and yet it continues on, and Damon continues to base his moral compass on "Will this make Elena dump my ass?" rather than actual morality, and Elena continues to either justify or ignore his violent, psychopathic outbursts, and compromise her own morals so that she can stay with him (not that she has much right to judge, considering how she cold-bloodledly plotted a literal genocide in S4, just so that she didn't have to live as a vampire anymore). Nothing about it is healthy.
And as far as IMDB......its user-edited, so its notoriously unreliable. For all we know, someone heard the rumours, and just took it as fact and listed it there. Last I heard they were still in talks with Nina, and no details had been released. Personally, I'd be surprised if she appeared in anything other than the series finale.
Vampire. Regular kind, no "Original" or "Hybrid" or "Heretic" addendum.
^Actually, if you look at it from EITHER show's perspective, and Hayley's an awful person. ;)
Don't just take what she says at face value in every episode (because Hayley's "morals" and "convictions" change based on what episode she's in, and what the writers want her to do), contrast it with how she behaves over the course of the series (which is what you're SUPPOSED to do, because of this little thing called "character development".). She will ramble on and lecture about how awful Klaus is, but she seems blissfully unaware that she's done many similar things.
She persists in thinking she's better than him (or any of the MIkaelsons) when really the only difference between them is that they've lived longer, are more experienced, more intelligent, and just all-round more competent (case in point, when she left NOLA with Klaus and Hope, and she refused to do what Klaus said, despite him being an expert in staying a dozen steps ahead of whoever might be trying to find him, up to and including ORIGINAL VAMPIRES WITH CENTURIES OF EXPERIENCE. She just stubbornly refused to listen, did whatever she wanted, and then dragged Klaus into a place full of people who KNEW her, and loudly announced that she was on the run with this vampire guy, and they needed help. And then she wanted to hang around and help some random werewolf girl she knew one time.......even though they were meant to be IN HIDING. Like I said, incompetent.).
There is nothing I find more intolerable than a monster who the writers don't even realize is a monster........
Yeah, but my point about the Cure/Silas not being there was more based around it not being there BECAUSE he was holding it. I mean, its not like there were piles of clothing lying around everywhere, or jewelry or wallets or whatever the hell. The stuff that people had on them seemed to not show up, just the stuff that was static and not in a person's possession. If Silas was holding the Cure, and Silas (as a living being) wasn't there, then the Cure shouldn't have been either, logically.
So it shouldn't be there, and Bonnie shouldn't have been able to get in. There is really no way the Cure should have come back into play in the story.....
>Tho, this Damon is pretty much evil and murderous
And this is different from regular Damon, how? ;)
But yeah, a lot of the revealed episode name's are pretty much verbatim quotes from S1. Its interesting.
Caroline, without a doubt. I mean, Care hasn't had much of a storyline outside of getting involved with one guy or another since S2 (seriously, she's been romantically involved with LITERALLY every member of the main cast apart from Jeremy........its sad), but at least she's a genuinely good person.
Hayley's......well, she's just awful. I mean, really. Just terrible. And seems totally unaware of how bad she is......its disturbing. Like, full-on psychopath level disturbing. Plus, she pretty much ticks every Mary Sue box in the checklist, from "Special Family" to "Miracle Baby" to "Drastically Overpowered To Suit Plot". ;)
^Bonnie claimed she made a trip up to Nova Scotia (where the Silas tomb was in the real world), but.........uh........well, for one, that doesn't make sense because it was in Silas's HANDS, and if there's no SILAS in the prison world, there shouldn't be any Cure either.
And for another, even if it WAS there, she shouldn't have been able to get in, as the only way into that tomb was through the use of expression, and a fully completed Hunter's Mark to use as a key (which she didn't have, and could never have had, as once she sued Jeremy's to open the tomb, the Mark's disappeared from all the Hunter's).
Best answer? The writers are dumb, don't know their own canon/story, are too lazy to bother to go back and look it up when writing new storylines, and we should just not look at it too closely or we'll get a headache. ;)
^Actually, the idea is that Damon would drain it from Elena, the way Silas drained Katherine. And (though it was never really gone into in S5) Katherine only started to deteriorate once the Cure was drained from her (and she had lived for months with it inside her, and suffered zero ill effects). So, it can be assumed that if Damon were to drain Elena and then keep the Cure within his system, he would survive.
Of course, that only works if the reason that Katherine was deteriorating was her body's real age catching up to her, and not a by-product of getting turned back into a human (as Elena is young enough that she wouldn't drop dead of old age, unlike Katherine).
Like I said, it wasn't really gone into. Ever. Because the writers are silly.